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Author Topic: Something that has been bothering me  (Read 11065 times)

Offline Smooth23

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Something that has been bothering me
« on: March 09, 2011, 11:05:32 pm »
I know this may seem like a bug or something this may not bother anyone else but why are we making fictional trains and fictional routes? Wouldn't it seem better to complete the non-fiction routes/trains first before we do any type of fiction train/route? I mean it would save us the trouble of new comers asking where certain routes are instead of giving them fictional things.

Offline Rayvon

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 12:35:23 am »
I know this may seem like a bug or something this may not bother anyone else but why are we making fictional trains and fictional routes? Wouldn't it seem better to complete the non-fiction routes/trains first before we do any type of fiction train/route? I mean it would save us the trouble of new comers asking where certain routes are instead of giving them fictional things.
The tradition of fictional routes came about because Joe's main policy is to only give his skeletons to people who actually prove they can develop a route. So even if a newcomer wanted to develop a real route he'd have to follow that rule

Offline peacemak3r

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 05:01:03 am »
If a person was skilled enough, couldn't he just create the whole thing from scratch?  Just saying because I don't see that logical at all.  It's like if I worked for a furniture store, I can't make a certain table because the original blueprints are kept by him; but I'm skilled enough to make my own table and it'll look exactly like it.  I can't really explain it.

Offline Smooth23

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 10:08:32 am »
I mean I understand the audition but that also takes out valuable time to make the real thing instead of making the fake one

Offline Bombardier01800

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 12:19:04 pm »
I mean I understand the audition but that also takes out valuable time to make the real thing instead of making the fake one

The fake one only has to be a couple of stations long and stuff showing that you can do the basic things on creating a route.

If a person was skilled enough, couldn't he just create the whole thing from scratch?  Just saying because I don't see that logical at all.  It's like if I worked for a furniture store, I can't make a certain table because the original blueprints are kept by him; but I'm skilled enough to make my own table and it'll look exactly like it.  I can't really explain it.

Well, if he or she could find all the information needed such as accurate distances between stations, chaining codes, switch position and length, signals, I mean the list just doesn't stop...

-Jose.
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Offline Rayvon

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 04:10:56 pm »
If a person was skilled enough, couldn't he just create the whole thing from scratch?  Just saying because I don't see that logical at all.  It's like if I worked for a furniture store, I can't make a certain table because the original blueprints are kept by him; but I'm skilled enough to make my own table and it'll look exactly like it.  I can't really explain it.
it's not that easy at all. The data Joe has also includes all of the signals, grades and station lengths. So even if we were skilled enough to get it geographically accurate we wouldn't know those 2 things. It's an understandable rule and it doesn't take 9 years to make a 4 stop route. People used to ask for skeletons and not develop anything so that's how it stands. I made the 1st Riverbank Park Shuttle in less than a month and when I first started out I didn't know crap about coding. Anybody's free to do whatever they want but they won't have access to Joe's objects which is pretty much around 80-90% of what we use unless they get the right clearance.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 04:14:40 pm by Rayvon »

Offline ipac

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 05:33:30 pm »
If a person was skilled enough, couldn't he just create the whole thing from scratch?  Just saying because I don't see that logical at all.  It's like if I worked for a furniture store, I can't make a certain table because the original blueprints are kept by him; but I'm skilled enough to make my own table and it'll look exactly like it.  I can't really explain it.

Otherwise yes, if you think your up for the challenge, then you most certainly can.  I am doing that with the LIRR Atlantic Avenue Route that I'm building.  If Joe magically has a skeleton, that would be great, but what I'm doing isn't based on anything other than the resources I have.

Fictional Routes yes they are a bother, especially in this age.  While it certainly fills in the "audition" role, today there are just WAY too many.  Fictional routes used to serve more than just the audition purpose.  It was used to showcase new technology which we can implement into our non-fictional routes.  This is where our research and development team came up.  Ray's Riverbank Park Shuttle was supposed to demonstrate timers, with the hope that it will one day be implemented in our real routes.  My Second Avenue Route was just a graphical demonstration, which I later fully implemented into the G.

Unfortunately today, fictional routes dont really serve much of a purpose anymore, since most of the skeletons are taken and are supposedly being worked on.  Nothing new or original has came up from new fictionals, other than filling in the author's imaginations of a route to this place.  Especially with the current fictionals being worked on, what purpose do they serve?  Eye Candy, and thats about it.  Eye candy was invented when I brought on the new onslaught of routes when I released the G.  Not as to say we should stop there, but Eye Candy isn't anything new anymore.  There are still alot of things we haven't tapped into, and thats what our fictional routes should be for, especially for the current developers.

For new developers, I encourage you guys to do something that wasn't done before.  We have a million "NYCT" (yes in quotes) fictional routes already, its a shame that we may have more released (here or not).  I encourage you guys to think up of something new, and use completely new objects in making whatever you plan to make.  By creating an example is how we improve our non-fictional routes.

You may ask why dont we just do it on the non-fictional itself, well we do that too, objects like the Coney Island Station (textures by me) and my new tunnel walls were built for those purposes and then modified by others for improvement.  But there are some things that do require a test on an actual route.  Things like timers on ray's shuttle is an example of that.

It seems anybody can make a route these days, it wasn't like how it used to be in the past.  And its quite true.  But not everybody has something new and interesting they can make.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 05:35:19 pm by ipac »
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Offline Haven

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 05:50:58 pm »
Somebody last year was talking about a 5 train skeleton. They said it was online, but we never got links to it.
Anyways,  yes i agree with you Smooth. This is kinda the point that i brought up in my Milestone thread a few weeks back. :D
Anyways, some Philadelphia stuff could help right?
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Offline error46146

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 07:48:04 pm »
Philly or any other city would be great...

Personally I'd like to see some NJ Transit or Metro North routes being done, but that's just me lol

As for the creation of routes nobody is 'given' a route, anyone can start a NYCT route if they want as long as they have the proper track, signal, station and other information. As of now Phantom909 is the only person with this information so therefore thats why we have to wait for him.

Offline Bombardier01800

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 09:57:47 pm »
I would like to put my Boston project back on track, but it bothers me to know I'm not really doing something right...
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Offline peacemak3r

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 10:46:13 pm »
Otherwise yes, if you think your up for the challenge, then you most certainly can.

For new developers, I encourage you guys to do something that wasn't done before.  We have a million "NYCT" (yes in quotes) fictional routes already, its a shame that we may have more released (here or not).  I encourage you guys to think up of something new, and use completely new objects in making whatever you plan to make.  By creating an example is how we improve our non-fictional routes.

You may ask why dont we just do it on the non-fictional itself, well we do that too, objects like the Coney Island Station (textures by me) and my new tunnel walls were built for those purposes and then modified by others for improvement.  But there are some things that do require a test on an actual route.  Things like timers on ray's shuttle is an example of that.

It seems anybody can make a route these days, it wasn't like how it used to be in the past.  And its quite true.  But not everybody has something new and interesting they can make.

This post. Thumbs Up.

Offline Fox-179

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 10:01:52 am »
@Kevin exactly the RBP Shuttle is great the timers has been proved and they work well.I personally think the first real route that should be implemented with timers is the (C) since it's easier b\c of the R-32's any and everyone can see them and there aren't many on the line.I mean the (C) has NO timers between 59th St and Spring Street before that stretch there is about 5-7 timers and after is about 9 btwn Spring & Euclid.I'm sure its a hard thing to do and may take a while but I'm sure we would all wait for the realism.

Offline Haven

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2011, 10:41:15 am »
MY question is, why can't you guys just use the regular time like on a schedule ????
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Offline Fox-179

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2011, 12:10:11 pm »
MY question is, why can't you guys just use the regular time like on a schedule ????
They do but it gets modified by testers on actual runs to set a decent time it may take 10min to get from 125th to 59th St on the local in real world but in BVE it may be set for 10min like the schedule but when tested it may take 6-8min by the testers so therefore its modified to our operation.Everyone on here is different in operation wise but those with similar will be on time or close to schedule unlike me I'm 95% of the time early which doesn't mean a thing.But if u want REAL time you can do it yourself its easy but you'll have to estimate the time and record the time it takes you to get from station2 station.

Offline Rayvon

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2011, 12:15:04 am »
MY question is, why can't you guys just use the regular time like on a schedule ????
That's what's done now, almost all non-fiction routes are based on an actual full run. The problem with this in the old routes is that there's no speed limits, and it's harder to equate a pretrain command using just a schedule. The way .pretrain works is that you're placing a train in front of you and you use several of them to keep it's speed in check. That's why you can't use it with the .interval command. Using the C as an example, there is no scheduled time for 81st street, and there's a one shot there. To equate a proper .pretrain command you'd have to calculate it's arrival using the scheduled time for 96th and 59th and guesstimate, then do the math for the .pretrain commands. That's why it's easier to test it out on a fictional route, because then I'm running things by my own schedule and speed limits, I can use whatever I want and nobody would complain about it being unrealistic.