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Author Topic: Something that has been bothering me  (Read 12530 times)

Offline Haven

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2011, 12:08:34 pm »
Oh.
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Offline Kriston Lewis

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2011, 02:49:12 pm »
MY question is, why can't you guys just use the regular time like on a schedule ????
That's what's done now, almost all non-fiction routes are based on an actual full run. The problem with this in the old routes is that there's no speed limits...
Is this something that could be fixed with a "Track.Limit" command?

Offline Rayvon

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2011, 03:41:01 pm »
MY question is, why can't you guys just use the regular time like on a schedule ????
That's what's done now, almost all non-fiction routes are based on an actual full run. The problem with this in the old routes is that there's no speed limits...
Is this something that could be fixed with a "Track.Limit" command?
somebody can go back and add them in but it's a tedious job to do. It's better to just start adding them in the routes we develop now

Offline 316 Cape May

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2011, 03:57:20 pm »
If a person was skilled enough, couldn't he just create the whole thing from scratch?  Just saying because I don't see that logical at all.  It's like if I worked for a furniture store, I can't make a certain table because the original blueprints are kept by him; but I'm skilled enough to make my own table and it'll look exactly like it.  I can't really explain it.

Otherwise yes, if you think your up for the challenge, then you most certainly can.  I am doing that with the LIRR Atlantic Avenue Route that I'm building.  If Joe magically has a skeleton, that would be great, but what I'm doing isn't based on anything other than the resources I have.

Fictional Routes yes they are a bother, especially in this age.  While it certainly fills in the "audition" role, today there are just WAY too many.  Fictional routes used to serve more than just the audition purpose.  It was used to showcase new technology which we can implement into our non-fictional routes.  This is where our research and development team came up.  Ray's Riverbank Park Shuttle was supposed to demonstrate timers, with the hope that it will one day be implemented in our real routes.  My Second Avenue Route was just a graphical demonstration, which I later fully implemented into the G.

Unfortunately today, fictional routes dont really serve much of a purpose anymore, since most of the skeletons are taken and are supposedly being worked on.  Nothing new or original has came up from new fictionals, other than filling in the author's imaginations of a route to this place.  Especially with the current fictionals being worked on, what purpose do they serve?  Eye Candy, and thats about it.  Eye candy was invented when I brought on the new onslaught of routes when I released the G.  Not as to say we should stop there, but Eye Candy isn't anything new anymore.  There are still alot of things we haven't tapped into, and thats what our fictional routes should be for, especially for the current developers.

For new developers, I encourage you guys to do something that wasn't done before.  We have a million "NYCT" (yes in quotes) fictional routes already, its a shame that we may have more released (here or not).  I encourage you guys to think up of something new, and use completely new objects in making whatever you plan to make.  By creating an example is how we improve our non-fictional routes.

You may ask why dont we just do it on the non-fictional itself, well we do that too, objects like the Coney Island Station (textures by me) and my new tunnel walls were built for those purposes and then modified by others for improvement.  But there are some things that do require a test on an actual route.  Things like timers on ray's shuttle is an example of that.

It seems anybody can make a route these days, it wasn't like how it used to be in the past.  And its quite true.  But not everybody has something new and interesting they can make.

Very well said! I used to be on BVE heavy back in the NYCTBA Days and it didnt seem that bad then. But now it just seems like everyone is making a fictional route. Then It seems like everyone is creating a BMT/IND like route. The IRT basically is non-existent in the NYCT-BVE world. IMO the time its taking to create all of these fictional routes, I bet alot of these real routes could get done. Dont get me wrong, I understand people have lives, but then it seems like everyones computer crashes. Whatever happened to backing up data, which seems like people forget how to do when it comes to these NYCT-BVE routes.

The only IRT routes we have is the 2, 7, Times Sq-GC Shuttle and some fictional ones. And even with the trains, to be honest some of them are total crap. And I really dont blame people to editing there own for personal use. I've created my own R142 from nothing, I've also have perfect sounds for the R32, R42, R44 all recorded from the actual trains. The best train I seen come out so far is the R38. Dont thnk im bashing anyones work, because im not, so dont take it the wrong. Its just sad some people are rushing there work and then its total crap. I have tons and tons of videos from the IRT routes I recorded from a R142s cabs ect.

The other problem is, some people get there routes and they just disappear into thin water and you never hear of the project again. Joe does a great job, he's been doing a great job since the NYCTBA days and I commend him for his outstanding work. IPAC, Jay-Jay for there amazing routes also. And BStyles for the 4.

The Manhattan Bound (6) i had in my hands since the orginal guy TDevin  gave up on it. He sent it to me, and he moved on with his life. I've converted a express run out of that and finished it the entire route. And no I will not release it or send it to anyone. The skeleton was made by Joe. I still check back here from time to time to see whats going on. NYCT-BVE has came a long way from where it was and hopefully it keeps on going and hopefully we see an IRT route.

Once again people, im not bashing in no shape or form, so just take my statements like a mature person.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 03:59:12 pm by 553 Bridgeton »

Offline ipac

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2011, 04:39:45 pm »
Truthfully I dont know why we dont have that many IRT routes released.  Other than the fact that there are alot more BMT/IND routes to be made, and our devs happen to live closest to these lines.  So it is easier for us to work on the BMT/IND routes first.  It kinda makes the IRT special, but at least you guys can know that those routes are in fact being worked unlike the handful of BMT/IND route that arent.  I think it makes some sense to work on the bigger problem first before the smaller ones.  Just my ideas on why it might be, obviously thats my own statement and opinion so it doesn't reflect why its like that.

As far as the trains go, people are using generic sounds, or the stock sounds that were in BVE since the early days.  Nobody is attempting to use new sounds which is a problem.  And if they do use new sounds, they aren't taking the time to edit them well enough so that each step/sound sounds accurate.  Some sounds are very hard to get, and most of you guys would resort to "cheating".  That is making a specific sound play between a certain run interval, resulting in repeating sounds IF the train was to move too slow or too fast.  While the sound may sound better during normal usage, special situations make the train sound unrealistic.  I'm sure that if you modified the train and you think its "great" your train has this problem.  This occurs in the sound packs too.  I'm not saying its bad, but I do feel that its "cheating".  More power to you if the train doesn't have that problem, the British trains almost NEVER have this issue which I am quite baffled on how they do it (we dont know).  The devs that I personally know here are doing their best not to cheat.

I dont really care about panels for trains, I care more about the sounds.  Visuals should be the last priority for trains.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 04:42:19 pm by ipac »
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Offline Haven

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2011, 04:42:34 pm »
Quote
The only IRT routes we have is the 2, 7, Times Sq-GC Shuttle and some fictional ones. And even with the trains, to be honest some of them are total crap. And I really dont blame people to editing there own for personal use. I've created my own R142 from nothing, I've also have perfect sounds for the R32, R42, R44 all recorded from the actual trains. The best train I seen come out so far is the R38. Dont thnk im bashing anyones work, because im not, so dont take it the wrong. Its just sad some people are rushing there work and then its total crap. I have tons and tons of videos from the IRT routes I recorded from a R142s cabs ect.
I agree with this 100% Although i am making a route, i get scared and pressured and i rush it. I think thats the thing for most people. I THINK

Quote
The Manhattan Bound (6) i had in my hands since the orginal guy TDevin  gave up on it. He sent it to me, and he moved on with his life. I've converted a express run out of that and finished it the entire route. And no I will not release it or send it to anyone. The skeleton was made by Joe. I still check back here from time to time to see whats going on. NYCT-BVE has came a long way from where it was and hopefully it keeps on going and hopefully we see an IRT route.
Ok, now im not bashing you, but why in the hell wouldn't you release it? It helps the site! It gives everyone something to play with and not to bug others to hell on what's going on with the development of another route! I mean, COME ON! IT HELPS! :D

Also, i hear things or see things on BVEStation like the development of the PATH cars. What the hell happened to those? And a few others, but i won't keep going on it.
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Offline BStyles

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2011, 05:20:52 pm »
Quote
The only IRT routes we have is the 2, 7, Times Sq-GC Shuttle and some fictional ones. And even with the trains, to be honest some of them are total crap. And I really dont blame people to editing there own for personal use. I've created my own R142 from nothing, I've also have perfect sounds for the R32, R42, R44 all recorded from the actual trains. The best train I seen come out so far is the R38. Dont thnk im bashing anyones work, because im not, so dont take it the wrong. Its just sad some people are rushing there work and then its total crap. I have tons and tons of videos from the IRT routes I recorded from a R142s cabs ect.
I agree with this 100% Although i am making a route, i get scared and pressured and i rush it. I think thats the thing for most people. I THINK

Quote
The Manhattan Bound (6) i had in my hands since the orginal guy TDevin  gave up on it. He sent it to me, and he moved on with his life. I've converted a express run out of that and finished it the entire route. And no I will not release it or send it to anyone. The skeleton was made by Joe. I still check back here from time to time to see whats going on. NYCT-BVE has came a long way from where it was and hopefully it keeps on going and hopefully we see an IRT route.
Ok, now im not bashing you, but why in the hell wouldn't you release it? It helps the site! It gives everyone something to play with and not to bug others to hell on what's going on with the development of another route! I mean, COME ON! IT HELPS! :D

Also, i hear things or see things on BVEStation like the development of the PATH cars. What the hell happened to those? And a few others, but i won't keep going on it.

You can wait patiently for routes, just like you did for the F. I really do not understand the rush to operate a route, only to realize five minutes later that it's not what you expect it to be.Time equals quality.

Many projects had started and stopped, like my M7 models, and the PATH cars, as you just said, primarily...because there's nothing to run them on. It is immature to run a train on an incompatible route just because you want it released. Some of these things go hand in hand.

As for the fictional routes...well yeah, there are a lot of them, and that amount is expected to double, whether you like it or not. Fictional routes take less time to create, most primarily due to the fact that it doesn't require 100% attention to detail. The HL would update faster than the 4 but maintain the same update ratio because I like adding a little creativity to a project.

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Offline Simon

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2011, 06:46:14 pm »
As far as the trains go, people are using generic sounds, or the stock sounds that were in BVE since the early days.  Nobody is attempting to use new sounds which is a problem.  And if they do use new sounds, they aren't taking the time to edit them well enough so that each step/sound sounds accurate.  Some sounds are very hard to get, and most of you guys would resort to "cheating".  That is making a specific sound play between a certain run interval, resulting in repeating sounds IF the train was to move too slow or too fast.  While the sound may sound better during normal usage, special situations make the train sound unrealistic.  I'm sure that if you modified the train and you think its "great" your train has this problem.  This occurs in the sound packs too.  I'm not saying its bad, but I do feel that its "cheating".  More power to you if the train doesn't have that problem, the British trains almost NEVER have this issue which I am quite baffled on how they do it (we dont know).  The devs that I personally know here are doing their best not to cheat.

I completely agree with you. I like to know that I'm not the only one who cares about the sounds of the trains. It seems that whenever I mention it, there's always a person with the response of "who cares" (as shown in the R110A) thread, where I have mentioned several times that there was a problem with the usage of P1. It would not concern me if they said they did not have the resources to work on it, or if they were still learning on how to fix this situation, but the fact that they straight out ignored it bothered me (which emphasizes the failure to appreciate constructive criticism properly).

Obviously if a prominent route developer agrees with this point, it should be taken into consideration. Personally I think the way a train sounds is the PRIMARY factor to a stellar review of a newly released train. I took this lazy approach as well with the production of me and Blackmanor's R68, where we used the generic sounds as the motor. I felt as if it was a rushed train, a project that me and Blackmanor worked on.


 
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Offline Fox-179

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2011, 06:55:01 pm »
I honestly think the R110A was rushed b\c as soon as people seen the vids it was put together too quickly I mean it was like released within a week or 2 after those vids on youtube with the R110A.The panel was letdown innacurate with the Display screen and the speed was in the wrong area.But the exterior is great but it was put together within days as opposed to months for other train creations.But its better than nothing.

Offline error46146

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2011, 08:02:54 pm »
I honestly think the R110A was rushed b\c as soon as people seen the vids it was put together too quickly I mean it was like released within a week or 2 after those vids on youtube with the R110A.The panel was letdown innacurate with the Display screen and the speed was in the wrong area.But the exterior is great but it was put together within days as opposed to months for other train creations.But its better than nothing.

Perfection takes time..I don't rush, nor do I have any intention to..it's not a race to who comes out with it first, but I see it as who makes the better train, who is more committed to their work and will provide fixes and updates over time, and who provides a better contribution to the society as a whole with their work.

Offline Rayvon

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2011, 01:29:23 am »
To be honest, I haven't been announcing some of my projects because I don't want to feel rushed with everything. The IRT is being developed currently, albeit slowly. I keep re-iterating the fact that the IRT is very scenic, so it's not as easy a sthe B Division to release. Case in point: The A and the C were the first two full length routes released by Joe besides the shuttle. The C is fully underground and the A runs mostly through houses in Queens, where as almost every IRT line besides the 7 runs past skyscrapers and public housing buildings. It's getting done but I guess you can say it's a very intimidating job, which could be why it hasn't really been touched until now.

And The train situation is another thing I explain all the time: some people just plop in new sounds and a panel and call the train finished, but if I look at the .dat file I can immediately recognize it from another train. Developers need to learn how to do the whole train and not just the sounds and the panel. I figured out how the Brits get their sounds so accurate, and it's actually not as hard as it looks
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 01:33:28 am by Rayvon »

Offline ipac

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2011, 08:00:47 pm »
Ray made a very true statement.  So thats where we have to figure out whether or not to use our old repeating objects, or not.  In this case, we do our very best not to have the generic repeating buildings as seen on the 7, and even the F.  The IRT routes pass through many scenic areas with buildings and that sort of stuff, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes longer.
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Offline Simon

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2011, 08:06:30 pm »
I would gladly wait an extra month or two for information on scenery to be collected and implemented on the IRT routes. That way, it'll save yourself an extra release in the future and comments asking for the improvements.
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Offline Bombardier01800

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2011, 09:13:58 pm »
...as seen on the 7, and even the F
The Thing is, the F is a very large route as it is, so (I think) having generic buildings will help with the frame-rates a little bit. However, seeing realistic landmarks around the route would give a lot more realism to the simulation.
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Offline Fox-179

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Re: Something that has been bothering me
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2011, 09:43:02 pm »
...as seen on the 7, and even the F
The Thing is, the F is a very large route as it is, so (I think) having generic buildings will help with the frame-rates a little bit. However, seeing realistic landmarks around the route would give a lot more realism to the simulation.
Agreed,I was looking for the cementery along the (F) and I was like wtf that's an important noticable location.Other than that the (F) is fine with buildings.