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Author Topic: Real Routes and Fictional Routes  (Read 36820 times)

Offline corcom1

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Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« on: April 09, 2012, 11:36:22 am »
Guys, I have always be patient waiting for routes to be posted but lately I've been seeing more fictional routes posted than real ones. My question is, if you can build fictional routes, why not build real ones. Even if someone is already working on it, someone can post their own version of the (ex. 1 Train, The rest of the 2 line, and so forth.) Can someone answer this without sarcastic or mean answers. :-\ 

Offline SubwayTrainOperator5

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 11:45:52 am »
People build fictional routes to get a feel of coding and stuff, it is like "practice" for building real ones. Real routes take much more time and work to create, which is why we have less of them.
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Offline LexingtonAvExp

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 02:28:45 pm »
Not to sound mean or anything but I kinda want to see some real routes
BTW whats the status of the routes?

Offline Haven

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 05:07:13 pm »
We do fictional routes more because with real ones, we want to be as realistic as possible so we want to get signal distances, platform distances and so on, and we can do it all in a month or 2. Plus we have our personal lives also, which slows us down from having it done really quickly.
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Offline peacemak3r

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 05:24:46 pm »
We do fictional routes more because with real ones, we want to be as realistic as possible so we want to get signal distances, platform distances and so on, and we can do it all in a month or 2. Plus we have our personal lives also, which slows us down from having it done really quickly.

There's a slight problem while using the "personal lives" every time a question like this is asked.

Yes, people has personal lives and yes people would love a route as realistic as possible.  Only problem is, most of the newer fictional routes has the same qualities as the non-fictional's realistic needs.  If people are asking for non-fictional route releases why bother with the quality of the fictional ones.

It's like asking for a Ferrari but you get an MR2 with a fiberglass body kit to look like a Ferrari.

Offline Haven

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 07:03:26 pm »
So Hammers you basically repeated most of what i said. And you you kinda spoke for most developers as i did, so you contradicted yourself in the process of trying to explain to people how hard developing is.
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Offline SubwayTrainOperator5

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 07:09:52 pm »
So Hammers you basically repeated most of what i said. And you you kinda spoke for most developers as i did, so you contradicted yourself in the process of trying to explain to people how hard developing is.

DJ Hammers is a developer too and has experienced the massive workload of developing before, so his statements technically are valid.



Not to sound mean or anything but I kinda want to see some real routes
BTW whats the status of the routes?

The route status directory can be found here, as up to date as you will get for now: http://forums.bvestation.com/index.php?topic=495.0
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Offline Haven

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 08:10:30 pm »
I know that. I was saying that he told me not to speak for the developers, YET he did the same thing and used the word "we" and spoke for most developers....
CONTRADICTION!!!!
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Offline YankeesPwnMets

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 09:51:06 pm »
I think DJ hit the hammer on the head with one point that most people forget: the cost of resources. Getting into the system is not free and quality cameras, recorders, etc are not expensive. Would you really want textures in routes to be some pixelated mess taken by an iPod Camera? I don't think so.  People have to use money for their own personal life as well.

Let me use Hammers' example. He takes three AP courses, meaning that he has three AP Exams to take, which I believe are in May. AP Exams are not free- they are pretty darn expensive to most people being $87 per exam. I basically financially handcuffed my own family when I was in High School because I took six AP exams, costing my parents around $500.... and my family wasn't all that rich. Hammers needs to pay $261 for his three exams. Where does the money for the camera or the $104 for a unlimited card or anything come from? For most developers in the sim world,   it comes from their payware content for simulators. For BVE, everything here is free. The developers have to pay for everything out of their own pocket and get no cash back in return. People should be grateful that nobody is charging anything for the content on this site.

Offline ipac

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 10:06:15 pm »
From my perspective, I really don't know why we have more fiction route than non-fiction routes.  I never had the chance to work on anything lately, so I'm out of the question (yep busy like crazy too), but I think there was a fear that when somebody makes a non-fictional route, there is already one being made by one of our developers.

Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, as long the two non-fictional projects are completely separate but parallel.

The issue is that everybody is recycling objects, using the same ones over and over again.  This makes the best non-fictional routes look repetitive and old, very, very fast.  Then the people who use fictional routes as "practice" decide to release their practice route, adding to the repetitiveness.

So I want to say this, if there is anybody out there that is willing to create a non-fictional route that we do not have or may very well be in development, and you want to make your own, feel free, as long you don't use any of the same objects already used, and simply remember that it becomes odd to have multiple versions of the same route.  An example of this is my Second Avenue route and error's Second Avenue route.  Fortunately they both look different enough to differentiate themselves from each other.  So if anybody wants to take the plunge and do a non-fictional route, go ahead.

The fictional route thing was only so that the developer creating that fictional route can show us that they are worthy of working on an already built but undetailed version of a route.  This was to ensure nobody was just trying to steal routes.

In this day in age, anybody making anything fictional is nonsense, because
  • Almost all non-fictional routes that were already created by Joe are already taken and in development
  • The chances of your fictional route (at least here on BVEStation anyway) using pre-made objects (from NYCBTA stuff) is extremely high
  • You are making things look uglier by reusing objects
  • Nobody wants fictional routes/trains, I'm more or less sick of seeing them (unless you do something fabulous)
  • You are wasting your time

So what are some notable fictionals then?
  • Chashinai Railway - Beautiful fictional transit system
  • 1950 Lexington Avenue El - Doesn't exist anymore, but still amazing
  • My Second Avenue Subway Route - Ok seriously, the only thing I borrowed from the NYCT objects were the track/columns
Certainly others out there that I cannot think of, but you get the idea.  Even making an outdoor route, that is actually detailed would be nice.  Any further I would be bragging, but everything I make for BVE, I strive to be different.

So going back to the question, Why do I think that there are so many fictionals?  People are lazy, don't want to go out and find stuff themselves, survey stuff themselves, don't use enough of their own work, do it just to practice and decide to release it anyway just so they can have a spot in the "developers list", let their imagination run aimlessly to nowheres, no creativity (seriously, at this point making a non-fiction route/train is more creative..., just cause we're getting more of the same, the only thing different is that the tracks are curved differently...)

With that in mind, here's a picture of a cancelled/on hold indefinitely project of mine.


BVEStation.

Offline EDawg

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 10:31:19 pm »
So what your saying is that people that make fictional routes are lazy? I think your wrong in every which way. Some of these routes are being made to give people something else to run in BVE other than whats currently available. For me I work sometimes 12 hours a day 6 days a week, So I'm  not be able to go out and gather pictures and for the 7. That doesn't pay the bills. This BVE thing the last time I checked was a hobby. So me personally think you need to check yourself before posting what you did and you start to alienate those that are actually creating something for everyone's enjoyment. For those that don't like the fictional routes don't have to download them.

Offline Dj Hammers

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 10:39:20 pm »
So what your saying is that people that make fictional routes are lazy? I think your wrong in every which way. Some of these routes are being made to give people something else to run in BVE other than whats currently available. For me I work sometimes 12 hours a day 6 days a week, So I'm  not be able to go out and gather pictures and for the 7. That doesn't pay the bills. This BVE thing the last time I checked was a hobby. So me personally think you need to check yourself before posting what you did and you start to alienate those that are actually creating something for everyone's enjoyment. For those that don't like the fictional routes don't have to download them.
I agree with EDawg. Nothing personal ipac, but that post is very alienating.


Now with everything else aside, the developers are going to create more non-fictional routes, but this can only be done with community participation.

It seems like the rest of the community is too lazy to contribute anything on the content contributor, and wants everything handed to them on a silver platter (There are several exceptions though, you know who you are) This is why I think (and I am reiterating this) that there should be some sort of incentive to contribute.

Such an incentive could be listing on the credits of the project, the receiving of forum currency, special promotions or positions (which can be revoked with abuse), or access to BETAs.

Offline peacemak3r

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 02:26:46 am »
You know the real deal between the demand for fictional and non-fictional routes here?

The older groups can careless when something non-fictional is released because we know what patience is.

The younger groups here have no patience what so ever.

You guys want to use personal lives and needs the community to give in and help?  Well go do that, as for me, my daily life is too clogged up to go out and help you guys out.  Am I to blame for something not coming out?  But put a thought that, have I ever complained about something not coming out?

The only thing I can remember complaining about not coming out were the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Subaru/Toyota BRZ and electronic products.

I still think 90% of this community is under 16 and can't even go out to help contribute.

Offline r160bve

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 07:34:01 am »
Word...U think our parents would let us go out and take pictures,measurements,etc. They would be like ure wasting ure time lol...read some books. Thats why I myself, 15, am waiting very patiently with all of the bvestation developers, or at least trying my best :)
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Offline Dj Hammers

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Re: Real Routes and Fictional Routes
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 08:53:18 am »
Actually many of the developers are under 18, and a small few are even under 16, and we still manage to get out and ride the subway.

Several of us don't even live in the city, and have to pay just to get in to NYC (you don't even WANT to know how much a Metro North ticket costs). And even even with that, we manage.