BVEStation

Author Topic: On the basis of getting stuff done  (Read 4730 times)

Offline ipac

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On the basis of getting stuff done
« on: December 01, 2011, 12:53:01 pm »
So I was writing this in the topic about underaged users and spammers, I ended up writing everything below, and thought it could go into a different topic, so here it is.

Back then when we were developers, we got things done, and we were the revival of a dying community.  Unfortunately today, there is no one left wanting to take that spot, so we're at the same position we were in several years ago and then some (the ones who are making fictional routes or BS routes).  I'm sorry to sound harsh, but in my opinion, any/every route being developed today looks the same as if it was just a year or so ago.  When BVEStation started we brought in completely new visuals, new objects, new trains, new simulator, and even multiplayer.  What about today?  No revival, same looks, similar routes, its more of the same.  We were hoping that there would be a new group that will take over and continue our legacy, but from what I have seen this hasn't happened, and this may never happen.  Everybody has become more technologically savvy, but nobody is actually being technologically savvy.  You know how to use, but you don't know how to create.

The NYCTBA community was near dying when BVEStation came in.  We're hitting that point again, will there be a new group that will come and bring some innovation back, I really don't know and we really can't tell.  Right after we hit the peak we started getting lower quality work, and now we're getting nowhere.  I don't know what will happen to the community, but it certainly doesn't look good right now.  Development communities have sprung up, segregating themselves into "Companies" as opposed to working for the overall group that is and was once NYCTBA.  New websites have sprung up, breaking the community as a whole, selfishness and extreme paranoia with copyright has kicked in.  The BVE Community on the other side of the ocean, literally obliterated.

All the original developers including me are now in college, we barely have enough time to visit the site.  I guess we failed to get a good group to take over us, either they joined a "company" or have pursued their own self interest.  Joe rarely comes on these days.  There isn't much I can say other than it was an honor to work with the new NYCTBA team, and seeing a few of the older ones return.  For the ones who want to give us something new, please do, and please don't do more of the same.  Don't be a dick and steal/redistribute our work, this happens mainly because of abysmal work to be honest.  We need people who will continue to inspire our next generation of developers, and not come out with crap or do crap.
BVEStation.

Offline Dj Hammers

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 03:01:46 pm »
Ipac is pretty much spot on in his post.

Look at all the members who registered in the last 12 months. Now look at the non-developer to developer ratio of those members. We only have
maybe 1 or 2 people who are developing BVE content out of the hundreds who have registered in the past 12 months.
Many people register with the sole reason to talk to the developers, trying to get them to hurry up with their work or to meet some demand they have.
Instead of constantly pressuring the developers to take up even more of whatever little time they have to spend more time on BVE, they need to help them instead.

We don't have all day to work on BVE, but apparently we have a large population of crazy foamers with no lives here who do not understand that.



People need to stop taking and start contributing, the BVEStation developers have for quite a while now and are getting burned out.



It's time for people to step up.
We need more developers. I have been developing for BVE privatly and publiclly since I was 10, it really isn't that hard.
http://trainsimframework.org/develop/index2.html

Offline ARome

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 04:51:02 pm »
Absolutely true, me as a  new gen developer, I agree with both Hammers and Ipac. We do have our own lives and try to work on these projects even when we have college/school/work. The developer ratio is not that large and instead of asking when a route is going to be done, members could help contribute on projects. Honestly I've noticed the same thing
Quote
Many people register with the sole reason to talk to the developers, trying to get them to hurry up with their work or to meet some demand they have.
The developers can't rush with these projects because if they rush on it then it will turn out to be like the 1st gen routes and even inaccurate distances. People do need to understand we are doing this for free and we aren't charging others to work on these routes 24/7.
In my point of view I've noticed many people PMing me for BETA testing or to make a route for them, etc. Like Hammers said we've learned how to develop routes and other things and it is really easy to learn.
We also have tutorials that will help out new gen developers who want to contribute with other developers: http://www.bvestation.com/devzone.php
http://trainsimframework.org/develop/index2.html
like hammers said:
Quote
People need to stop taking and start contributing, the BVEStation developers have for quite a while now and are getting burned out.
and not by "contributing" and just keeping the project yourself. Even me as a new gen developer, I do plan to make routes that aren't even part of NYC such as Metro North, LIRR, Amtrak, etc. We need mostly non-fictional routes because I can tell people are waiting on many of these non-fictional routes to be done, we are doing our best to complete these projects but people have to wait. If you want to help us out feel free to post on certain threads, and if new members want to learn how to develop routes or trains, don't be scared to ask a question on the forums, I myself got confused and asked other developers for help.
Once again BVEStation Developers aren't doing this to benefit one member but we are doing this to benefit the whole community and this is a hobby, if you want to help out don't be scared to ask us, we would appreciate people helping out because this will help us get things done in a greater rate. Think of it this way, one person working on a project will take a lot of time, but if it is a group of people who are working on the same project, the project will be done in a faster rate, and there will be a great result once it is complete.
Remember Rome was not built in a few days, it takes time to develop something especially routes that are non-fictional because we do not want to make it look fictional or as if it was done by the last minute.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 04:55:57 pm by ARome »

Offline Phantom909

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 07:49:01 pm »
The problem is this. NOBODY wants to take the time to learn how to develop a route the right way. Ive said it 100 times, but nobody listens. Same thing to people who want routes done but cant develop. how many times have i asked people to give details of stations, but in all the years of asking I have received ZERO information. We are all busy but we have c lose to 1000 members and 468 stations. You guys want routes either learn the RIGHT WAY or HELP OUT.

Joe

Offline BStyles

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 05:34:34 pm »
Hit the nail right on the head with this one.

Like it or not, the enthusiasm when it comes to developing has gone down the drain. Like I said in a few other topics, there are too many people asking for BETA testing instead of getting their damn notebooks(or notepads, in this case) out, and actually learning a thing or two about what it takes to become a true developer. When I started, I started just like the way things are now until I was put in my place. It didn't take more than a few simple questions before I figured things out and when I look back on it I think about how selfish some of the members here have become, as well as lazy.

I don't have a problem giving support, honestly. But I will not, however, give support to someone who has no intention of learning. People say that we bash them for asking simple questions; in actuality, we're bashing them for not taking the time to explore what this site has to offer and what has already been accomplished, because I can assure you, if I had to start from scratch today, and searched around the site for a moment, I can get the hang of developing in no time. It's not that hard. But the way people portray themselves on the site, with the spamming, the multiple name changes, the modifications, and the quality of their work, the inability to make proper sentences when posting, and not to mention the inability to do anything but ask for BETAs when they have no background skill or expertise in development to show for it, it's just a waste of breath.

I did start one of the companies Kevin mentioned, because back, about five years ago, it was just a fancy name that I used for my work. That name has now grown into something that has become a community, something that only a separate website could've handled, but I never forgot where I came from. Do I hope to get something out of it? I never have, and I never will. When you get to work on quality content at your own expense, for a simulator that people may look back on someday, you don't do it for the BETA testing.

I look at some of these members, and I wonder if they realize that the immature, selfish ways they portray themselves on this site will reflect on who they become later on. They don't have priorities like we do, so when it comes to release dates and things of that nature, we do have rights to tell them off about it, because until they hit that phase, they won't get it.

BStyles

Offline nelson3001

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 07:51:45 pm »
If I were to use this program to make objects, would any of the files be compatible with OpenBVE? I know that JPG and BMP work but are there any file types that allow you to save this in 3D? The program I have here is Autodesk Inventor Professional 2012 and it's pretty simple to use. I would look forward to developing objects on here if this program is compatible with OpenBVE. I'm sure it would make developing objects alot more easier if it worked for OpenBVE. I received this copy for free because it's used in my DDP class but you have to pay for it. I could probably create some very detailed objects with this program such as exteriors and much more.

image hosting jpg

Offline peacemak3r

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 07:54:29 pm »
If I recall, wall textures use .png files now to save space.  Other then that I don't know.

Offline [CT1660]

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 10:45:13 pm »
If I were to use this program to make objects, would any of the files be compatible with OpenBVE? I know that JPG and BMP work but are there any file types that allow you to save this in 3D? The program I have here is Autodesk Inventor Professional 2012 and it's pretty simple to use. I would look forward to developing objects on here if this program is compatible with OpenBVE. I'm sure it would make developing objects alot more easier if it worked for OpenBVE. I received this copy for free because it's used in my DDP class but you have to pay for it. I could probably create some very detailed objects with this program such as exteriors and much more.

image hosting jpg

some people use .bmp as their texture files while others (like me) prefer the .png format. That's only for the textures and not the objects themselves.

The object files would be either in a .b3d format, or a .csv format.

Offline BStyles

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 06:53:04 pm »
If I were to use this program to make objects, would any of the files be compatible with OpenBVE? I know that JPG and BMP work but are there any file types that allow you to save this in 3D? The program I have here is Autodesk Inventor Professional 2012 and it's pretty simple to use. I would look forward to developing objects on here if this program is compatible with OpenBVE. I'm sure it would make developing objects alot more easier if it worked for OpenBVE. I received this copy for free because it's used in my DDP class but you have to pay for it. I could probably create some very detailed objects with this program such as exteriors and much more.

image hosting jpg
You're talking about making a 3D model in an advanced program for a simulator that uses Notepad/Microsoft Excel-coded objects.

No, I used Autodesk Inventor in high school, and it requires that you export to 3DS(through Autodesk 3DS Max), then explort to Blender, where a rare exporter will convert files to B3D. Yes, it can be done. Will it run in OpenBVE? No. 3DS format triangulates faces, which triples the amount of polygons, and prevents texturing. The Smith/9th Street Truss on the G line would be useless had it been made in Inventor, which is why objects are built in Notepad, and/or Microsoft Excel. I would strongly suggest learning how to build objects in Notepad, because it is a complicated process unless you know what you're doing.

Offline nelson3001

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 08:04:56 pm »
Can you at least make a textured panel or something and save a BMP image of it?

Offline YankeesPwnMets

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 10:59:17 pm »
Styles nailed it there.

And yes, a bmp file will work with openBVE.

Finally, just wondering, are you a freshman, sophomore, junior or seinor at Brooklyn Tech?

Offline nelson3001

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 08:58:04 pm »
A freshman why? Do you go to Tech?

Offline YankeesPwnMets

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Re: On the basis of getting stuff done
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 10:21:01 pm »
I graduated high school a long time ago...

and no, I went to Bronx Science