Important forum issue that needs a resolution

[Dr. Subway18]

Well I'm not new to the site just the fourms and after about 2 weeks of being here Ive noticed alot of rude stuff going on. i wish i could quote the stuff but i don't think i can and if i could it be too much. Whenever a newbie asks question like "when will R_____ be released?" another member says something like "whenever its finished, you should be patient" or a how to question.   i mean people are asking simple questions and they are getting their heads bit off lol. i could see if this one member was asking the same question over and over. i believe this is a serious issue we should address ASAP. I (as well as other people) am sick of seeing this, We are all BVE fourm members, like the NYCMTA, they treat eachother as family and work together as best as possible. Anybody have anything to add to this i would be grateful to hear it

[ARome]

Well I'm not new to the site just the fourms and after about 2 weeks of being here Ive noticed alot of rude stuff going on. i wish i could quote the stuff but i don't think i can and if i could it be too much. Whenever a newbie asks question like "when will R_____ be released?" another member says something like "whenever its finished, you should be patient" or a how to question.   i mean people are asking simple questions and they are getting their heads bit off lol. i could see if this one member was asking the same question over and over. i believe this is a serious issue we should address ASAP. I (as well as other people) am sick of seeing this, We are all BVE fourm members, like the NYCMTA, they treat eachother as family and work together as best as possible. Anybody have anything to add to this i would be grateful to hear it

I've been part of the forums for about 3 years, and I've noticed that for the longest and honestly, we aren't being rude at all we do get frustrated a lot because they do not read what was posted previously.
Also, we have dealt with spammers asking for when is this and that to be done, including constant PM's for beta testing, vice versa.
So these quotes such as:
"When is _____ released?"
"Can I beta test?"
Constant threads of the previous question asked.
And much more can lead to frustration.
We have lives and they should be grateful we are doing this for free. I know this is a major concern but if they want things to get done faster, why not help others out instead of feeding on a developer who has a life?
Anyway's we are sorry if we have offended you but we hope you guys understand my point, some members will add on to my response.
Right now we really need people to help contribute to the BVE Community, and the developer population is really low as of now, some are leaving, some give up, etc.

[peacemak3r]

The main problem, not to single anyone out, is that people don't read.  Reading is fundamental and can answer most of the repeating questions on this forum.  Another note, searching using the search or Google is also viable.

On top of people asking for support help, the reason some of the older members (people with program knowledge and such,) are so blunt is because some of the questions are too broad.  We ask straight forward questions to get specific details to understand the problem.

This isn't a problem that just appeared, this is a common problem/situation in my opinion.  I try not to be rude or mean when responding, but most of my answers would be very blunt and straight forward.

There isn't really a resolution/fix to this.  I understand some of the members do have speak English as their first language, so their grammar gets bashed on.  I understand that some of the members may not be computer savvy.  The real fix is just read everything and do a couple of searches before coming to post a problem.


--Also about people asking for release dates and progress.  In my opinion these two questions are entirely different and some of the staffers and members answer them the same, which shouldn't be the case.  I see someone asking for the progress, that's not really up to someone answering for the creator themselves.

For example if I were to ask on a BStyles thread about his project's progress, I would expect BStyles to answer it and confirming it with him/her whether they want to answer or not.  I'm not asking anyone but them.

The asking of release dates are the annoying ones and some get branded as annoying impatient brats though others may not.  If I do see someone asking these type of questions, I'd just link them to the first page or a progress page and nothing further.  Flaming them or bashing them won't help.

[Dj Hammers]

Also a big issue is the immaturity of many members here. It really gives BVEStation a bad name, because all people see are the immature brats who act 5 years younger
than their age.
I think moderation of immaturity should be a lot stronger because it gives BVEStation a bad reputation.


Another issue is that nearly all of the new members nowadays register only to ask the developers about progress. They only leach off of the community,
just pestering us and not actually contributing anything. We have had nearly the same development crew for 2 years now; People are getting burned out.

We need new members to take up developing and pay attention to quality.

[Dr. Subway18]

Well I'm not new to the site just the fourms and after about 2 weeks of being here Ive noticed alot of rude stuff going on. i wish i could quote the stuff but i don't think i can and if i could it be too much. Whenever a newbie asks question like "when will R_____ be released?" another member says something like "whenever its finished, you should be patient" or a how to question.   i mean people are asking simple questions and they are getting their heads bit off lol. i could see if this one member was asking the same question over and over. i believe this is a serious issue we should address ASAP. I (as well as other people) am sick of seeing this, We are all BVE fourm members, like the NYCMTA, they treat eachother as family and work together as best as possible. Anybody have anything to add to this i would be grateful to hear it

I've been part of the forums for about 3 years, and I've noticed that for the longest and honestly, we aren't being rude at all we do get frustrated a lot because they do not read what was posted previously.
Also, we have dealt with spammers asking for when is this and that to be done, including constant PM's for beta testing, vice versa.
So these quotes such as:
"When is _____ released?"
"Can I beta test?"
Constant threads of the previous question asked.
And much more can lead to frustration.
We have lives and they should be grateful we are doing this for free. I know this is a major concern but if they want things to get done faster, why not help others out instead of feeding on a developer who has a life?
Anyway's we are sorry if we have offended you but we hope you guys understand my point, some members will add on to my response.
Right now we really need people to help contribute to the BVE Community, and the developer population is really low as of now, some are leaving, some give up, etc.

  8)I understand what you mean, I dont think you were rude its just we have alot of of people here that were being treated like kids or something, maby an honest mistake or didnt take time to read the previous post until asking on another post. your exactly right about developers but in order for members (average member) to develope BVE things they hove to know how to do it. I know how to mod/build trains in MSTS using Gmax but i dont know how to convert it.( im not asking this yet). Anyways this to me was a good topic, especially for the immature ones to read. How exactally to we get rid of spammers?

[Dj Hammers]

1: http://trainsimframework.org/develop/index2.html

2: Being ignorant is a childish trait, so the ignorant members are treated like children.

3: The immature members of BVEStation will not read any of this as it isn't about their precious routes and trains.

[Dr. Subway18]

Yeah i just found out how to do the routes, id love to contribute but i think ill start on cabs and stuff like that and then go big  . The childish little members probally would have read this if the subject was "New Realease trains" .As i see now there are 80 or so guest vultures just like the take but don't give members on here as we speak.

[error46146]

Here at BVEStation, most of our developers don't usually set release dates for their projects, as it is totally unpredictable when our work will be done. We have many other priorities in our lives other than BVE, such as school, work, etc. and those take precedence over BVE no matter what. We work on a volunteer basis and try to give as much time out of our lives as possible to provide; however, no promises can be made.

We apologize if you may have been offended by anyone & thank you for your understanding and patience.

[Dj Hammers]

The childish little members probally would have read this if the subject was "New Realease trains" .As i see now there are 80 or so guest vultures just like the take but don't give members on here as we speak.

And there you go.

If you are reading this post thinking that a new train or route was released and would not have read it if it were titled "Important forum issue that needs a resolution", follow these steps:

1: Read this thread.
2: Learn to develop for OpenBVE
3: Get a life.

[ipac]

Just as error said, we say when its done, because that what we really mean.  We're not trying to be rude or anything, but as error46146 said, most of the developers are now in college.  That alone takes up a lot of time, in addition to other priorities which are more important.  We work on it when we can (in my case, when I feel like it) because there are other things that I have to do, or things that I do simply just to relax from all the things I had to do. 

Working on BVE add-ons is not a stress free activity and requires a lot of patience.  We ask the new members to do the same, or help us and take matters into their own hands.  The only reason why you guys have routes like the G,F,Q,D,V Old Antique Routes, and the handful of trains is all because of a newer generation of developers who have came out from the dark of nothingness to take the stand, and continue the legacy that the previous generation left.  Not to mention inspiring the older developers to continue what they do.  As always I commend the group of people who made this new generation of NYC BVE routes available today, but we still have a long way to go, but the group of people isn't there.  I believe a solid foundation is laid for this to be pushed forward, but who's going to take this foundation and build it?

So what do we have today?  Developers who have holed up into their own little groups/teams doing their own work for all the wrong reasons.  Developers who have taken their work offline never to be seen again.  Developers fighting against people who steal stuff wasting valuable time that could've been spent developing.  The trends are now toward open source/creative commons as an attempt to assist people who want to develop for BVE.  We expect that people take advantage of this opportunity to create something amazing from our work, not use it to create something worse than what we envisioned.  Its not a problem of us wasting time answering these questions of "when it will be released" anymore, its hostility and selfishness at this point.  As stupid as this sounds, unless somebody comes out of the darkness with a new vision, we're not going anywhere.

Until then, the routes are stuck in their current time, perhaps never to be released because there is no inspiration or nobody who is passionate enough to want to make a change.  Otherwise we'll be getting more of the same.

I suggest this, the ones who are asking when this and that will be released, go learn, create something that will amaze everybody, and be that inspiration for the generation that has already expired, and inspire the next one to continue the legacy.  We want people to develop as part of the NYCTBVE/NYCTBA Team.  Unfortunately thats not an honor anymore, and its all for the reasons I just stated above.

I wish the community well, and hope for somebody to come out from the darkness with something amazing.

[Dr. Subway18]

Yeah I know what you mean, Im, in the trucking business and i only get to hang out the internet for a couple hours a day between loads,i would like to start to develop in my free time. If i had people asking me when so and so is going to be done (when i start developing) id be really aggervated, like you guys. Like i said ive been looking into developing BVE stuff but i have to take my time. No disrespect but i really wouldnt choose this place over my hard earned career for a little rushed progress. I really appreciate what all of you are doing so far and i hope to help you out in the near future.

Y.G.P.

[[CT1660]]

Most people who just randomly ask for release dates, it's just plain useless.

I would understand if one has NO knowledge of making trains or routes, or don't have the time to do so.

At least to show that they're really interested in the route that they hope to be released, or even care, they could go outside, take the real life route that is being developed for OpenBVE, and take photographs of the stations and the area around it, and submit it for textures. It would both make the player and the developer happy, as the developer would have more resources available. Or even, the player could offer to make the conductor announcements. Either would be a great help for the route developer, and the player themselves would feel proud that they contributed to the developer's project, meaning less time for the developer to have to acquire the resources themselves. Either way isn't to difficult to do.

The same applies to newbies who ask for "beta testing" for trains, since most just ask for it to get the content early. What they could do to help make train developing easier, just get off the computer, take the real-life subway train, and take photographs of critical areas, like the interior and the objects present, as well as the train's exterior. If a camera is not within reach, they could just use their iPhone/BlackBerry/Android/iPad 2, or anything that can record sound, and record sounds off the trains in action. Then they could just submit these valuable resources.

About these copyrighting this and copyrighting that. It really harms the BVE community, as this would hamper resources for a train developer, or even a route developer. I understand and respect those who choose to copyright their resources for the purposes of not getting their hard work stolen. As slowly some people are making their resources open source, or creative commons, i commend those, as this helps the BVE community learn something new each day.

If more people would start contributing, from a simple photograph or sound recording, to even a full-fledged object, and stop asking for release dates or beta testing, it would help us progress throughout the years.

-Chris

[theflyingoreo]

Agreed upon how even a simple photo can help speed up route development. Anything such as photos for textures or reference photos can assist us with finishing faster.

Problem is, no one does that. The Queensbound E is currently at a standstill because I am in need of photos. I have asked for photos on my thread and no one has even been in contact with me.

I understand you all have busy schedules etc etc but like Chris says, using your iphone/android/blackberry/ipad etc etc will still be fine. At least we'll something to work off.

Aaron

[Dr. Subway18]

Agreed upon how even a simple photo can help speed up route development. Anything such as photos for textures or reference photos can assist us with finishing faster.

Problem is, no one does that. The Queensbound E is currently at a standstill because I am in need of photos. I have asked for photos on my thread and no one has even been in contact with me.

I understand you all have busy schedules etc etc but like Chris says, using your iphone/android/blackberry/ipad etc etc will still be fine. At least we'll something to work off.

Aaron

     I really wish i could get those photos to you, seeing that i am 759miles away right now i cant but ik whatcha mean, everybody wants to Beta test and ride this n drive that but arent even willing to take some pictures, and alota of people on here are in NY so if you took a sunday or late evening off maby you could get something. what kind of texture photos are you looking for, and if i can get them where do i send them?because i might be able to do something with that.

Y.G.P.

[ErrorMacro11]

ill be willing to take the pics. which ones do you need